i asked this question of a jw that called on me yesterday: "if the universe requires a creator, why doesn't god?
if the universe must have a beginning, why doesn't god?
he claims to have an answer, but it must wait for next time he calls.. i'm hoping you guys can give me a heads-up as to what he will say.
I asked this question of a JW that called on me yesterday: "If the universe requires a creator, why doesn't God? If the universe must have a beginning, why doesn't God? And, how do you know?".
He claims to have an answer, but it must wait for next time he calls.
I'm hoping you guys can give me a heads-up as to what he will say. I've never had this conversation with a JW before.
Thanks!!
at around 4 minutes into the september 2015 video splane said "for the man and the baby to be part of josephs generation they would have had to have lived at least some time during joseph's lifespan.".
this is the lynchpin of the wt argument, that two lives must overlap to be considered the same generation.. let's take an example of twins who are born just a few minutes apart.
obviously, these twins are the same generation as each other.
when they came up with the overlapping generations new lite, they must have received alot of "where's the scriptural precedent?!
so they came up with the account of joseph and his brothers to shut them up.
still they are trying to make a round peg fit in a square hole to fit 1914 in the equation.
from the november 2015 watchtower:.
what have archaeologists found that shows that jericho was captured in a short time?.
joshua 6:10-15, 20 says that the israelite soldiers marched around the city of jericho once a day for six days.
The double city wall Garstang associated with the Israelite invasion in about 1400 B.C.E. in fact dated to the Early Bronze Age some 1,000 years earlier. The destruction of Garstang’s City IV, which he had dated to about 1400 B.C.E., occurred, according to Kenyon, at the end of the Middle Bronze Age, about 1550 B.C.E.14
I didn't see Wood's additional note about carbon dates, because it's not in the actual article. Nevertheless, from what I have read in other sources these earlier dates are stronger than ever, based on the latest calibration curves.
I still think it's a stretch to say that the grain could only point to a short siege and a non-plundering conquerer. The grain discovered and tested was "charred" - surely, even a plundering army wouldn't want it!
So... what I should have said is: Based on some grain, dating from 150 years too early, the Watchtower concludes that the bible story is true, even though the "walls of Jericho" fell a thousand years before.
from the november 2015 watchtower:.
what have archaeologists found that shows that jericho was captured in a short time?.
joshua 6:10-15, 20 says that the israelite soldiers marched around the city of jericho once a day for six days.
From the November 2015 Watchtower:
What have archaeologists found that shows that Jericho was captured in a short time?
Joshua 6:10-15, 20 says that the Israelite soldiers marched around the city of Jericho once a day for six days. On the seventh day, they went around the city seven times. Then God made the strong walls of Jericho fall, and the Israelites captured the city. Have archaeologists found anything that shows that the siege of Jericho was short, just as the Bible says?
So, forgive me, but I thought this article would provide evidence for the miraculous fall of Jericho's walls. After all, that's the most remarkable part of the story!
Instead, the topic is substantially narrowed in the last sentence: "Have archaeologists found anything that shows that the siege of Jericho was short, just as the Bible says?" Hmmm... Disappointing.
In ancient times, a city was under siege when an army surrounded its walls, ready to attack it. If a siege lasted a long time, the people in the city would eat most of the food they had stored. When the soldiers finally captured the city, they would take everything they wanted, including any food that was left. That is why archaeologists have discovered very little food or none at all in the ruins of cities in Palestine that were attacked in this way. But the ruins of Jericho are different. Biblical Archaeology Review says: “The most abundant item found in the destruction, apart from pottery, was grain.” It adds: “To find such an extensive amount of grain is exceptional.”
Pretend for a moment that this is actually interesting information...
WOW! Extensive amounts of grain - surely enough to feed a city during an extended siege! Never eaten! Never plundered!
Well, not exactly...
The Biblical Archaeology Review article (quoted, but not properly referenced, hmmm...) was written by Bryant G. Wood, a young earth creationist. He refers to the work of archaeologist Kathleen Kenyon, who excavated Jericho in the 1950s. She is said to have discovered "six bushels" of grain over the entire dig site. Six bushels. That's a sack and a bit of grain.
But wait, it gets worse. The grain found by Kenyon does not carbon date to the time of the bible story. Not even close.
The Bible says that the Israelites did not take any of the food in Jericho because Jehovah had commanded them not to. (Joshua 6:17, 18) It also says that the Israelites attacked Jericho in the spring, right after the harvest, when there was a lot of grain stored in the city. (Joshua 3:15-17; 5:10) So the fact that there was still a lot of grain in Jericho after the siege confirms that the siege was short, just as the Bible says.
So, based on some scattered grain, dating from a thousand years too early, and the "research" of a young earth creationist, the Watchtower concludes that the bible story is true.
How scholarly!
according to the newest watchtower:.
jehovah communicated with adam in the garden of eden, using human language.
god likely did so in an ancient form of hebrew.
According to the newest Watchtower:
Jehovah communicated with Adam in the garden of Eden, using human language. God likely did so in an ancient form of Hebrew.
Why are they so stupid?? The bible doesn't even make this claim!
As far as I can figure, the oldest fragment of proto-Hebrew dates form 1000BC. There are many forms of non-Hebrew mark-making and language that date much farther back than that!
i found this article on creationism in an old watchtower:.
even a superficial glance is sufficient to show that all the innumerable forms in which the life-urge of nature manifests itself are subject to a fundamental law one may call it an iron law of nature which compels the various species to keep within the definite limits of their own life-forms when propagating and multiplying their kind.
each animal mates only with one of its own species.
I found this article on Creationism in an old Watchtower:
Even a superficial glance is sufficient to show that all the innumerable forms in which the life-urge of Nature manifests itself are subject to a fundamental law – one may call it an iron law of Nature – which compels the various species to keep within the definite limits of their own life-forms when propagating and multiplying their kind. Each animal mates only with one of its own species. The titmouse cohabits only with the titmouse, the finch with the finch, the stork with the stork, the field-mouse with the field-mouse, the house-mouse with the house-mouse, the wolf with the she-wolf, etc.
Deviations from this law take place only in exceptional circumstances. This happens especially under the compulsion of captivity, or when some other obstacle makes procreative intercourse impossible between individuals of the same species. But then Nature abhors such intercourse with all her might; and her protest is most clearly demonstrated by the fact that the hybrid is either sterile or the fecundity of its descendants is limited. In most cases hybrids and their progeny are denied the ordinary powers of resistance to disease or the natural means of defence against outer attack…
This urge for the maintenance of the unmixed breed, which is a phenomenon that prevails throughout the whole of the natural world, results not only in the sharply defined outward distinction between one species and another but also in the internal similarity of characteristic qualities which are peculiar to each breed or species. The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger. The only difference that can exist within the species must be in the various degrees of structural strength and active power, in the intelligence, efficiency, endurance, etc., with which the individual specimens are endowed. It would be impossible to find a fox which has a kindly and protective disposition towards geese, just as no cat exists which has a friendly disposition towards mice…
In short, the results of miscegenation are always the following:
…physical and mental degeneration sets in, thus leading slowly but steadily towards a progressive drying up of the vital sap.
The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged.
Ooops. That was actually Mein Kampf.
The reason I post this is because my wife’s father and a few other JWs just watched Ben Stein’s “Expelled”. He is now convinced that Hitler was a “Darwinist” and his supposed belief in evolution inspired the Holocaust.
Ironic, isn’t it, that Hitler’s word’s (above) are almost indistinguishable from the Watchtower’s.
Oops, just noticed that someone already posted this.... sorry.
http://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/mexico/new-testament-in-tzotzil/
Tee hee hee
the "special talk" this year was about family happiness.
as always seems to be the case it was a bait and switch job since the talk had actually nothing to do with how to achive family happiness and everything to do with jw doctrine on why familys are unhappy.
mine is unhappy because of jw doctrine but thats the implied irony in attending the sunday indoctrination i suppose.. that said, the speaker trotted out the oft used jw illistration of a dented bread pan to describe why and how sin was passed from one human (adam) to another (all of us).
JWs teach that Adam was a physically perfect, free moral agent. Adam's sin did not cause him to lose physical perfection, rather God took it away. This would imply that God altered/corrupted Adam's DNA. In so doing, God chose to condemn all of us, because we inherited Adam's corrupted DNA.
JWs teach that the "Tree of Life" was only symbolic, and had no supernatural life-granting properties.
“[Jehovah] then had to act as Judge, supporting and applying his own statement of the consequences.— Watchtower 09 2014
God had told Adam: “In the day you eat from [the tree of the knowledge of good and bad] you will certainly die.” Adam may well have understood this “day” to be a 24-hour day. After violating God’s command, he could have expected Jehovah to act before the sun set....
Then [Jehovah] pronounced sentence on the wrongdoers. Were he to execute them then and there, his purpose regarding Adam and Eve and their offspring would come to nothing. Although he confirmed the death penalty and the effects of sin began immediately, he allowed Adam and Eve to produce children who could benefit from other provisions that He would make. Thus, from God’s standpoint, Adam and Eve died on the day they sinned, and they actually died within one “day” of 1,000 years.”
“GOD’S human sons were not meant to die. (Romans 8:20, 21) In fact, when Jehovah first spoke of death to Adam, it was mentioned, not as the outcome that man should normally expect, but as the punishment for disobedience to God.”— Awake! 10/07 2007
“the Creator himself decreed the death sentence for the first human pair, implementing that sentence in a way that man does not fully understand...”— Insight, Volume II pg. 247
“The first reference to death in the Scriptures occurs at Genesis 2:16, 17 in God’s command to the first man concerning the eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, violation of which command would result in death. However, death among animals as a natural process was evidently already in effect, since they are passed over completely in the Biblical presentation of the introduction of death into the human family. The gravity of God’s warning about the death penalty for disobedience would therefore be understandable to his human son, Adam. Adam’s disobedience to his Creator brought death to him. Thereafter, Adam’s sin and its consequence, death, spread to all men.”“Adam and Eve also experienced a physical change. God condemned them to death, just as he had said he would. They became imperfect, and this led to the corrupting of the whole human race—their offspring.”— Watchtower 06/15 1984
“When Adam was created, God placed in the garden of Eden “the tree of life.” This tree evidently had no intrinsic life-giving qualities in its fruit, but it represented God’s guarantee of life “to time indefinite” to the one whom God would allow to eat of its fruit.”— Insight, Volume II, pg. 245
